Leadership Team
Scott Webber
President
303.893.3200
Scott.Webber@SothebysRealty.com
Scott Webber is the President of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty, and the CEO of Majestic Realty, it’s parent company. The Colorado firm includes 22 sales offices, and over 400 broker and support staff associates serving some of the state’s best-known luxury markets in metropolitan Denver, Boulder, Evergreen, Castle Pines Village, Castle Rock, and the famous ski town markets of Breckenridge, Crested Butte, Dillon, Vail, Beaver Creek, Telluride and Winter Park. The firm established an office in 2018 in Ventura, California. LIV Sotheby’s International Realty is part of Majestic Realty, together with Summit Sotheby’s International Realty in Park City, Salt Lake City and St. George, Utah, and Sierra Sotheby’s International Realty in Lake Tahoe, California and Nevada, and Reno, Nevada. Majestic Realty, with 44 offices and 900 broker and support staff associates, is the largest Sotheby’s International Realty company in the world ranked by closed dollar volume, which in 2018 totaled $7.31 billion.
A third generation, 43-year real estate sales and brokerage management veteran, Scott is responsible for the day to day leadership and operations of the business, and is closely involved in supporting LIV’s team of high producing people on their path towards personal, professional and financial growth and success.
Scott’s history of experience in the luxury, resort, and corporate relocation segments of the residential real estate industry has influenced the growth and focus of the firm. The firm has carefully positioned valuable feeder market connections with similar leading brokerage firms through the unparalleled relationships of three important network affiliations. LIV Sotheby’s International Realty is the exclusive affiliate of the world class Sotheby’s International Realty brand and network in the markets it serves. The talented, experienced people of LIV take great pride in this association and work hard to deliver the power and benefits of these exclusive, unmatched resources and advantages unique to the Sotheby’s International Realty brand and international network of 22,000 brokers, 970 offices in 72 countries. Additionally, LIV Sotheby’s International Realty is the exclusive Board of Regent member of the Who’s Who in Luxury Real Estate and LuxuryRealEstate.com network of 130,000 brokers and nearly 4,000 international luxury brokerage firms in 35 countries. LIV Sotheby’s International Realty is also one of 800-member firms of the Cartus Broker Network, the real estate industry’s leading network of corporate relocation-oriented brokerage firms in the United Sates. LIV is a member of the Employee Relocation Council. LIV’s award winning Corporate Relocation Team services over 2,000 incoming metro Denver and Boulder relocation assignments each year. These long-standing real estate network relationships, together with a substantial infrastructure of marketing, technology and leadership support, help LIV brokers to create significant exposure and to achieve strong, successful results for clients.
Scott’s successful career includes 20 years with Coldwell Banker Real Estate where he built and was President of a 26-office residential and commercial brokerage company, including Coldwell Banker Van Schaack and Company in Denver, and Coldwell Banker Premier Realty in Salt Lake City and Las Vegas. He served as Senior Vice President of NRT, Inc, the largest real estate brokerage company in the industry. He is a past president of the Salt Lake Board of Realtors, and a past director to the National Association of Realtors. He is a graduate of the University of Utah and a member of the Young Presidents Organization. When not working in the business to support his brokers and staff, which is rare, he enjoys time with his family, alpine skiing, golf, Harley Davidson motorcycles, and aviation. He is an instrument-rated private pilot and TBM910 aircraft owner. He and his wife, Andrea, are proud parents and grandparents.
Steven Kirby
Executive Vice President, Financial Officer
303.629.8106
Steven.Kirby@SothebysRealty.com
Steven Kirby is Executive Vice President & Financial Officer of Majestic Realty, which owns and operates LIV Sotheby’s International Realty, Sierra Sotheby’s International Realty and Summit Sotheby’s International Realty. LIV Sotheby's International Realty serves Denver, Boulder, Vail and Breckenridge, Colorado, and Ventura, California. Sierra Sotheby’s International Realty serves Lake Tahoe, California and Nevada, and Reno, Nevada. Summit Sotheby’s International Realty serves Park City, Salt Lake City and St. George, Utah.
Over nearly two decades of real estate finance, private equity, and capital markets experience, including leadership roles at Black Creek Capital and Wells Fargo Private Bank, Steven’s robust track record includes aggregate real estate transactions closed of more than $10 billion. Spanning organizations and economic cycles, Mr. Kirby has cultivated a reputation for efficient growth as an accountable, effective, and authentic leader.
Born and raised in Western Montana, Steven has a strong understanding of luxury properties across resort, urban and bucolic locations. Mr. Kirby earned a B.S. degree from Minot State University, graduating as Co-Valedictorian, Academic All-American, Outstanding Graduating Senior, and Varsity Captain of the National Championship-winning Cross Country team. He subsequently earned an MBA with Highest Honors from the University of Colorado as the recipient of the Leadership and Excellence Award. He has been featured in The Denver Business Journal, U.S. News and World Report and the Wall Street Journal, and is a past board member of the NAIOP Rocky Mountain Real Estate Challenge. Steven and his wife have three young boys and are active in the Denver community.
Shannel Ryan
President
Denver Metro
303.967.2046
Shannel.Ryan@SothebysRealty.com
Recently recognized as Most Influential Real Estate Leader, Shannel Ryan has been involved in the marketing and operations management of Denver high-end residential real estate brokerages for more than 26 years.
Promoted to LIV President, Denver Metro in July of 2020, Shannel is responsible for all 9 LIV SIR offices and operations in the Denver metro area, including Boulder, Evergreen, and the firm’s new Colorado Springs office. Additionally, she also sets direction on marketing and advertising, collaborating directly with the 20 member LIV Studio Marketing Team.
Shannel brings a wealth of experience and deep market understanding to her present day role. After years of successfully navigating every real estate office responsibility including personal assistant, broker, office manager, marketing director, managing broker, and most recently, senior vice president, Shannel moved to the Cherry Creek office in 2009 to become the managing broker, her first major leadership role.
With her visionary approach, Shannel turned that assignment into one of the industry’s biggest success stories. LIV SIR soon became the No. 1 performing Sotheby’s International Realty affiliate in the world and has since earned the honor of having the highest per-agent productivity in the country. LIV SIR, along with its sister companies Sierra Sotheby’s International Realty and Summit Sotheby’s International Realty, ranked No. 10 in the nation based on total closed sales volume in 2020, according to the 2021 REAL Trends 500 report, collectively achieving over $12B in total closed sales volume.
“Shannel has connected with the LIV brand and our network at the highest level and earned the respect and admiration of her peers around the industry,” said R. Scott Webber, CEO, LIV SIR. “She’s a person of great integrity, energy, and commitment.”
Shannel is a 4th generation Coloradan and active member of the University of Colorado Boulder alumni. She joined Fuller Towne & Country Properties, the predecessor to LIV SIR, 22 years ago. As President of Colorado’s leading luxury and lifestyle-focused real estate firm, she has innovated broker service models, creatively engaged with the business community, and delivered exciting opportunities for every broker and support staff associate to reach their long-term professional goals. Civic minded with a dedication to service, Shannel is dedicated to fulfilling commitments to organizations both big and small. Recent achievements include The Hearts and Hope Gala, Denver Designer Showhouse, Red Cross International, Columbine High School Alumni Fund.
Kim Taylor
Senior Vice President, Relocation and Referral Services
720.488.6035
Kim.Taylor@SothebysRealty.com
Kim Taylor is the Senior Vice President of Relocation and Referral Services for LIV, Sierra, Summit, Las Vegas, Desert, Group One, Crest, and Sun Valley Sotheby's International Realty. Managing the referral and relocation services for each company, Kim works closely with other brokerages, local corporations, and national relocation management companies. She oversees a six-person relocation services team and a relocation specialist agent team of over 200 agents, assisting corporate transferees and military families who are moving into or out of the states of Colorado, Utah, Nevada, Idaho, and California. Kim has specialized in relocation for nearly twenty years, both as a top producing REALTOR® and in the corporate relocation sector. Her professional background also includes experience in financial services.
Kim holds both a Certified Relocation Professional (CRP) and Graduate REALTORS Institute® (GRI) designation, is a member of the National Association of REALTORS®, the Colorado and Michigan Association of REALTORS®, and the Denver Metro Association of REALTORS®. She is also an active member of the Relocation Directors Council, Worldwide ERC, Denver Metro Chamber of Commerce, and Rocky Mountain Relocation Council. Kim graduated from the University of Michigan, Ann Arbor with a degree in marketing.
Jill Rose Franklund
Senior Vice President
Jill.Franklund@SothebysRealty.com
Jill Rose Franklund is a native of Boulder County, Colorado. While attending the University of Colorado in Boulder, she discovered her passion for real estate. Jill’s career spans nearly 30 years with experience in sales, marketing, and management of luxury residential, commercial, and agricultural properties.
A former co-owner of the first Sotheby’s International Realty office on Colorado’s Front Range, Jill specialized in contract management of over $300,000,000 in total closings. Later appointed as asset manager of an international multimillion-dollar real estate portfolio, Jill oversaw the intricate day-to-day responsibilities of luxury estates, single-family rentals, and commercial properties while also establishing a functional platform for serving ultra-elite clientele worldwide. Jill proudly collaborated in the acquisition of the initial Sotheby’s International Realty franchise for Saudi Arabia, the Kingdom of Bahrain, and Kuwait.
Choosing to remain in Colorado, Jill realigned with the local Sotheby’s family and today proudly serves as Senior Vice President for the Majestic Realty collective of companies – Desert | Group One | Las Vegas | LIV | Sierra | Summit and Sun Valley Sotheby’s International Realty offices.
Jill is the proud mother of two daughters, Savannah and Skye, and together they spend their free time hiking, skiing, paddle boarding, riding horses and supporting many local charities statewide.
Jaima Giles-Alsum
Vice President, Managing Broker, Crested Butte
970.748.5162
Jaima.Giles@sothebysrealty.com
Jaima Giles-Alsum has always had the mindset of abundance. That, coupled with her deep desire to help others succeed, translates well to her new role as Managing Broker of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s Crested Butte office, where she helps support 20 Agents to cultivate and grow their Real Estate businesses in Gunnison County.
Born in Wichita, KS, and raised outside of Atlanta, GA, Jaima grew up spending time in Crested Butte with her grandfather, who was involved in the development of the ski resort and who built a home on the mountain in 1962. The area has always held a special place in her heart.
After moving to Crested Butte as a young adult and graduating from Western State College in Gunnison, Jaima earned her real estate license and began forging strong relationships with her clients, many of whom she now considers family. Combining more than 15 years of real estate experience with her passion for the Crested Butte area, Jaima embodies the essence of her tight-knit mountain community: hard-working, friendly and generous.
She approaches her work with authenticity and openness, offering clients intricate knowledge of the valley she’s lived in for 23 years, a keen perception of market trends, and strong negotiating skills. “My passion is to establish relationships, become a confidante, and help my clients enjoy their Real Estate journey. I’m often one of the first points of contact people connect with in the Valley, and as their Realtor I become a part of their Crested Butte experience.”
Named Realtor of the Year in 2019, Jaima currently acts as the Past Chair of the Board of Directors for the Gunnison/Crested Butte Association of Realtors, a board she has served on since 2013, and is also a two-year member of the CREN MLS Board of Directors.
Civic minded, Jaima is a strong supporter of local non-profits, including the Adaptive Sports Center, which offers recreational activities to people with disabilities, and Living Journeys, which provides financial assistance, travel and emotional support to families and individuals with cancer. Jaima is also a major investor in RPAC, a group affiliated with the Colorado Association of Real Estate that provides political advocacy at the local, state and federal levels in support of home ownership and private property rights.
When she’s not working, Jaima enjoys spending time with her husband on their 22-foot Catalina sailboat or on the trails with their “Timber Sleds”—dirt bikes that convert to maneuverable sleds in the wintertime—which she says is a blast. She also loves alpine skiing, Nordic skiing, scuba diving, and animals. She’s appreciative and proud of the success she’s had in her career and the support she receives in life from friends, family and clients. Jaima looks forward to continuing to help both clients and Agents realize their dreams.
Dan L. Fitchett Jr.
President, Colorado Resort Markets
970.748.5162
Dan.Fitchett@SothebysRealty.com
Dan L Fitchett Jr. brings over 40 years of real estate experience in the resort real estate industry to his role as President of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s Resort Markets-Vail, Beaver Creek, Breckenridge, Keystone, Winter Park, Telluride and Crested Butte. offices. His extensive experience in resort land and property sales, and development offers clients an exceptional resource in a market that requires local knowledge and experience to gain optimal results.
Dan uses his accomplished background in brokerage management and resort marketing to ensure his clients are matched with professionals who are experienced in serving their client’s specific real estate needs. Clients often rely on Dan and his brokers to discreetly act on their behalf for all phases of their real estate transactions.
Dan uses his many connections and ongoing involvement with the communities where he works and lives to keep his finger on the pulse of the issues that can affect property values and development restrictions. His team’s assistance with the comparison of the area’s many communities provides great value for clients. Having been the CEO of The Club at Cordillera, principal partner of Mt. Crested Butte projects, a variety of roles at Eagle Resort Development ranging from principal partner to management of over $400 million of real estate, has given Dan a variety of contacts helpful to his clients and team. He has also been involved in Beaver Creek Resort, Elkhorn Lodge and River Valley Ranch in development management roles.
An active civic and business participant in Denver and the Vail area, Dan has offered his time on the boards of Beaver Creek Property Owners’ Association, Vail Board of Realtors, Beaver Creek Club, and The Club at Cordillera, Urban Land Institute. He also is a past president of the Denver Athletic Club, and former member of the Denver Country Club.
Dan’s longtime residency in the mountain resort areas of Colorado has given him the first-hand knowledge needed to match the needs of his clients with the many dynamics of the mountain resort market and his experienced team of brokers. Dan achieves results for his clients so they can relax and simply enjoy the anticipation of mountain resort living in one of the most beautiful areas of the world.
Alex Griffin
Vice President, Managing Broker, Vail Valley
970.376.6120
Alex.Griffin@sothebysrealty.com
As a Colorado native, Alex was raised as a skier and frequented the Vail Valley with his family to follow their passions for the outdoor mountain lifestyle. After achieving a Real Estate Degree from Colorado State University, he moved straight to his paradise, Vail CO.
Alex joined Sotheby's International Realty as a member of The Ritz-Carlton Residences, Vail sales team where he affirms it was like getting a masters degree in luxury real estate sales with three flagship luxury brands – Vail Resorts, Ritz-Carlton, and Sotheby’s International Realty. Now with a decade of experience, Alex has been involved in hundreds of successful transactions (over $300M) in a variety of property types throughout The Vail Valley.
Alex has been involved with several organizations and boards and has completed his term as the Chairman (President) of The Vail-Multiple Listing Service (MLS) in 2020 and was responsible for transitioning around 800 members into a new MLS technology platform during a pandemic. As the Chair-Elect (incoming President) of the Vail Board of Realtors for 2022, Alex continues to be elected by his peers to lead our industry into the future.
Outside of real estate, Alex has served as The President of Radio Free Minturn (2017-2020), was selected as a member of The 2018 Young Professional Power Group, and has been involved in other organizations such as The Vail Valley Young Professionals Association, Vail Valley Mountain Trails Alliance, The Cycle Effect, and more.
Alex lives in Edwards with his wife Suzanne, son Kit, daughter Ava, and their dog Boomer. In the rare moments when he's not working, you'll find him pursuing his passions for skiing, mountain biking, or any outdoor activity that our valley has to offer.
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Aaron Shriner
Vice President, Managing Broker Breckenridge
970.409.9494
aaron.shriner1@sothebysrealty.com
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Shyla Rogers
Vice President, Managing Broker Denver Tech Center
720.883.3453
shyla.rogers@sothebysrealty.com
Shyla Rogers is the Vice President Managing Broker of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s Denver Tech Center office serving all of Metro Denver. As a Denver Business Journal 40 under 40 Nominee, Shyla advocates with compassion, tenacity, and dedication – the very traits that led her office of 65+ brokers to benchmark sales topping over $1.155 Billion in 2022. The feat was a personal best for Shyla and a company record. In March of 2022, she was named Denver Metro Association of Realtor's Broker Manager of The Year.
Her high standards and reputation for raising the bar fold seamlessly into LIV SIR’s culture of excellence. Shyla brings with her an extensive background in real estate, including being named a top 100 Managing Broker and earning the prestigious President’s Council Award in 2018 at her previous firm, SIR parent company, Realogy. From desk support to transaction manager, office administrator to buyer’s agent, Shyla understands the inner workings of a successful brokerage and knows how to nurture, coach, and lead teams to extraordinary results.
As a dedicated managing broker, Shyla works hard to connect with her agents and their specific needs, so she can best support them in a customized way. She finds great fulfillment in taking experienced brokers to the next level and partnering with them to build a distinct set of actions to achieve winning outcomes. Shyla creates more than a business plan with her agents—she helps them curate a career path.
“Each agent runs their business differently, so I partner with them, and give them the coaching and support they need, as this cannot be a one size fits all approach,” she says. “Different brokers require different resources, so it is my responsibility to develop a plan that is easy for them to follow and execute. Seeing brokers succeed is the ultimate reward.”
Prior to real estate, Shyla served as a personal assistant to a high-profile celebrity which informed her future roles. During this time, she learned to anticipate needs, multitask, and delegate, while cultivating a productive working environment. The experience defines her leadership style to this day.
Shyla holds an MBA and undergraduate degrees in English and Journalism and is a longtime supporter of the Leukemia & Lymphoma Society and American Heart Association. She is a single mother to son Jaxon, who is a budding chef and athlete, and the proud owner of two shih tzus. Together, they live happily in Southeast Denver and when not hard at work, she enjoys spending time with her family and friends, sitting on patios with a good cocktail, attending concerts and taking full advantage of everything Colorado and the Mile High City afford.
John Watts
Vice President, Managing Broker Cherry Creek
303.641.5367
john.watts@sothebysrealty.com
John Watts is a highly regarded Denver real estate expert who serves as Managing Broker of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty in Cherry Creek. This office and their 143 agents are best known for topping $1.5 billion dollars in sales in 2020 – the highest volume production and sides on record at LIV SIR, which also ranks as the number one Sotheby’s International Realty affiliate in the world.
With nearly two decades of experience navigating Colorado real estate, John focuses on making good agents great, and great agents exceptional. His full-service approach includes Ninja coaching and training, as well as world-class tools and collateral to ensure his agents have the guidance and assistance they need at every stage of their careers.
“My goal, and passion, is to help others succeed and grow and reach their goals,” says John. “I am a relationship-focused managing broker. I care about each one of our brokers on a deep level. Whether it be helping with a transaction or coaching them, I love what I do.”
John has held numerous positions in the industry including Buyer’s Agent, Transaction Coordinator, Director of Compliance, Assistant Team Leader, Team Leader, Managing Broker, and Sales Manager. Furthermore, he has been instrumental in taking the LIV SIR Cherry Creek office to new heights, leveraging his in-depth local knowledge and niche expertise within residential real estate, from long term and short term investment, to development, luxury, and multi-family.
A born and bred Denver native, John lives happily in Centennial’s Willow Creek with his wife of 18 years, their identical triplet boys, and beloved black lab, Duke. In his spare time, John can be found on the water fly-fishing, playing lacrosse, or rock and fossil hunting while enjoying Colorado’s majestic landscape.
Andy Sommer
Vice President, Managing Broker Cherry Creek, Castle Rock and Castle Pines
303.437.1430
andy.sommer@sothebysrealty.com
Andy Sommer is the Managing Broker of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s Cherry Creek office in Denver, Colorado. A decades-long industry veteran, Andy does not shy away from challenges, change, or new opportunities. Most notably, he pours everything he has into the development of his agents, and it shows. Andy’s brokers have the highest per transaction earnings in Colorado – no doubt a testament to his stewardship and expertise.
Guiding real estate professionals with a people-first philosophy, Andy ensures decisions are based on value, not cost, and he leads by example with a reputation for excellence. This includes consistently earning the #1 Office in Colorado seven out of the last 10 years, being recognized as one of the Top Managers in the Nation on the President Council five out of the last seven years, and serving on the President Advisory Council every year since 2010. He specializes in business coaching, and productivity and action workshops, with a strong focus on the listing process, pricing strategies, negotiations, and contracts.
JOriginally from Austria, and a Denver resident since 1997, Andy has shouldered numerous consulting and management roles throughout his career, working both stateside and abroad. He holds a master’s degree in Customer Service Management, with a bachelor’s degree in Precision Engineering. In his downtime he loves to golf, travel, and solve puzzles, and resides happily with his wife and children in the Brownstones in Highlands Ranch, a neighborhood he prizes for its close proximity to the local Town Center and parks. Lastly, Andy is an avid supporter of American Cancer Research, American Heart Society, and Habitat for Humanity.
Christina Davies
Vice President, Managing Broker Boulder
cdavies@livsothebysrealty.com
Christina Davies is the Managing Broker of LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s office in her hometown of Boulder, Colorado. For nearly two decades, she has served as a trusted real estate advisor and mentor, with prior experience in high-tech sales and marketing around the globe.
Christina is a former President of the Boulder Area Realtor Association 2017-2018, Director of the Boulder Area Realtor Association 2015-2019, Director of the Colorado Association of Realtors 2019, and holds a Master’s degree in strategic Business Management with an undergraduate degree in Cross Cultural Communication. She is conversant in Spanish and Italian and is the author of the book, “Own it! Live it! The Woman’s Guide to Buying Property Solo and Having a Piece of the American Pie.”
Whether it’s reaching the summit of Kilimanjaro, landing at the base camp of Mount Everest, or achieving peak sales at some of Boulder’s most prominent new construction buildings – including S’park, NOBO, Springleaf, and Greenstones – Christina tackles challenges head on and doesn’t settle until she reaches the top. Today, she helps her colleagues do the same with a “people first” mindset and unwavering commitment to excellence. Her top priority is her team’s improvement and success, and she leads by example through one-on-one coaching, training, sales strategy, and extensive contract expertise.
As a world traveler who is Boulder born and raised, she insists there is no place she would rather be. Aside from real estate, Christina is a firm believer in giving back and spent time in Kenya, Africa as a volunteer at an HIV children’s orphanage. In addition, she serves as a member of the Junior League of Denver, volunteer at the Avista Hospital foundation raising funds for a new breast cancer center, and sits on the house board corporation for the Chi Omega Sorority in Boulder. A proud wife and mother, Christina lives happily in Colliers Hill and enjoys skiing, playing tennis, and practicing yoga in her spare time.
Peggy Raible
Vice President, Managing Broker Telluride
303.893.3200
Peggy.Raible@sothebysrealty.com
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Ben Day
Managing Broker, Colorado Springs
303.893.3200
Benjamin.Day@sothebysrealty.com
Benjamin Day is a lifelong learner who believes in being adaptable and growing in kindness. As the Managing Broker for LIV Sotheby’s International Realty’s Colorado Springs office, he is an integral part of cultivating of talent, and more importantly, chemistry.
His keen ability to build meaningful relationships and help agents hone their skills has resulted in a culture of inclusion, all while spearheading leadership initiatives that not only create subject matter experts, but superior agents in the field.
“The best part of selling has always been helping someone realize the maximum potential in something, getting into a neighborhood that they didn’t think they could, recommending improvements that make four times their cost on a home sale. I have always loved that. Now as a coach and manager, I get to orchestrate subtle shifts within the careers of individuals and help them create strategic plans to enhance their future.”
Aside from building teams up, Benjamin prides himself most on helping brokers get to their why. He leads by example and has earned a reputation for outstanding communication with exceptional results, while specializing in greater Colorado Springs neighborhoods spanning from Downtown, Broadmoor, and Old Broadmoor, to Stratton and Skyway, Kissing Camels and The Mesa, Manitou Springs, Peregrin, Mountain Shadows, Pinecliff, Flying Horse, Southwest Black Forest, Pine Creek, Woodmoor, Monument Acreage, Old North End, Patty Jewett, and the East End.
In addition to his collaborative management style at LIV SIR, Benjamin served as a three-time board member of Empire Title’s Peak Producers (2017, 2018, 2020) and gives back to the local community through various charities and organizations, including Care and Share, Springs Rescue Mission, and Project Angel Heart. He is presently a member of the Pikes Peak Association of Realtors Leadership Academy and is a member of the Pikes Peak Association of Realtors Diversity and Fair-Housing Committee.
A Colorado native and dedicated family man, Benjamin lives happily with his wife and three kids in Pinecliff, the southernmost neighborhood in Academy School District 20. This prized area saddles up into the foothills with 500-acres of Ute Valley Park and Open Space just two blocks from his house – a fitting address since Benjamin is an avid outdoorsman who enjoys mountain biking, fly fishing, snorkeling, scuba, hiking, and wilderness.
